Why You Need to Adapt to "The Change"

Do you think it's the end for all the PMs? Alex, I don't want to start with a classic episode of this is the AI blah blah blah talk, but 100% I'm fully with you. I don't see a world where companies are entirely run by computers. I don't see a world where there's no fortune 500 companies that have tens of thousands of engineers and engineering teams that to some extent need to be organized. I'm pretty sure there will be fortune 500 companies with way less employees than we have right now. 100% especially in the R&D departments. Actually, there's a paradigm shift going on. I think we should take a look at this because there are already many things changing. That you maybe underestimate which are clearly showing in which direction we're moving towards. The first thing I see is, I mean, especially as becoming as like a power chat GPT user is the capabilities I have as a product manager to build a product these days. I mean, just talking about myself right now is incredible. I can build a SaaS company within let's say 20 minutes by writing a couple of prompts, signing up to a couple of tools, using the open AI API to do a little bit of integration. And I build a landing page and I start selling shit or actually not shit, good stuff. And I mean, honestly, can you remember times where you were able to create like copies or blog article with a couple of questions that you fill out in high quality SEO optimized and stuff like this? I mean, just to make a very, very, very simple example right now. I mean, I think you can build cool stuff. But I think there's actually a lot of shit that's being built. And that is even more shit that is going to be built with the tools at hand, right? And you know what, Alex, a lot of shit that has been built is something that we also have with engineers and product people, because we know that more than 90% of the startup fails. Startups failing anyway. Yeah. I think we will just like exponentially have more startups because more people have access to the broad range of skills that everyone needed in the past, right? It's super easy. It's super easy to get a product out of the door and it's super easy to get a block on the road. But then still there will always be a difference between a good product, good content and a bad product or bad content, right? I disagree. There's something that is even more important than the quality of the product. And it always was. It's how you sell it. And marketing capabilities, I mean, not to name any company's name, but I would say in many companies, you can fire at least 90% of the marketing teams, especially when it comes to content writing, translation and all that kind of stuff. And use a computer program that is very well trained on especially such things and write amazing copy. So, and this brings me back to the beginning of the conversation. So yes, of course, there is a lot of shit. And of course, I cannot build a fintech company right now as a product manager or as a random person. No, but it's coming. The feature capabilities are increasing. And we're going to see a process where, for example, junior engineers will become less and less relevant, mid-level less and less relevant. And I'm not saying that they will be all completely gone, but everything that can be optimized or served by tools cannot be covered by people who are doing the job anymore, right? No. And there's one essential thing. And I need to make a point here, Alex, because it's very important to me. And this is why I, this is something I've said in 2019. If you remember, it's also written in a couple of my blog articles. I believe that product management is, and if you don't, it is, it will become the most important job ever. Because I'm maybe not a good programmer, but the difference is as a product person, I know the business, I know what I want, I know the outcome and how things have to work, and I can fucking spec it. I mean, I'm feeling like Superman at the moment, right? And to every product manager who's tuning in, I mean, we're getting super pumped. Before we get everyone so hyped and so pumped, right, let me just like, let me throw something in. Remember when we talked about Google and Gmail and how many PMs they have, right? That also comes from, I mean, it's the opposite of, do we even need product managers if the other teams can organize themselves, right? Because the business context is there, like there's the business stakeholders, right? It's a question of who should be the one owning those things, right? Because like, I mean, you could also go to a business person and give them the things at hand. ChatGPT is amazing in specing things or writing user stories and so on, right? So it's not only the PM, it's the PM or, I mean, in general, I would say product people, right? Because, I mean, good luck as a product manager if you don't have the designers. I think design is still one of the things that's harder to get a hat around the eye. Don't think so. So we're now both protecting our professions and seeing ourselves as the future. I mean, you're actually asking, so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understood, the question you're asking is, do we even need product people and designers as well in the future, right? And I think it's a good question because on one hand, I would like to say yes, and on the other hand, I would like to say no. Because on one hand, I would like to say yes, and on the other hand, I would like to say yes. I mean, I'm asking that not because I think they will go away. And we touched on this in some of the older AI episodes that we can definitely link. I personally think jobs will change. The roles will necessarily change, right? I think a lot of the things that can be automated, you will automate them. A lot of the early processes, right, this is where I love AI, when you need to overcome the blank sheet syndrome and get started, AI can be extremely helpful when you need to document stuff and so on. So I don't think the job goes away. I think the job changes. I think there is an advantage for who can apply these things properly. But yeah, I think… Here's the point. You're right. The jobs are not going away. But the amount of people we need will. I agree with you. The job will stay. But here's the thing. I was recently talking to a senior engineer working for Unicorn, and he told me something or she, they told me something that was really interesting because the message was, Christian, I'm pulling eight story point stories, so very big stories. And when I open my laptop, ChatGPT is the first page that is going to open. And I'm rocking down these stories that usually take two to three weeks within a couple of hours. And I was like, this is the dream every product manager is dreaming of, right? And so getting the big chunks done very fast. And what I'm saying again is, for sure, we need engineers and for sure, we need product managers, but we need way less of them. And the question is, what are you going to do once you are not being needed anymore? Do you have an answer? My message is, and it's also like a kind of question, but also a statement that I want to drop here is, I mean, again, you're a product manager, you understand business. And by the way, I'm not saying that engineers don't have a business background, for sure. If you do, be lucky, be happy. But the thing is, we're having superpowers. So if you have superpowers, why would you work for someone else? Build your own big next thing, right? And I'm not saying everyone should quit their jobs, but there are great opportunities we've never had before. Yes. But there is one thing within there. There is only a limited number of people who can build something and they will all need a workforce at one point. Like, I can't imagine. Do they? Yeah. How? I mean, realistically, you won't fully automate everything. Why not? The likelihood that, I mean, you can already automate everything. So let's go back. Let's go back to the Fortune 500s. Do you see a single person running Facebook? No. On the building sites, right? I mean, yeah, even on the operations side, like everything could be automated. I mean, but here's the point. Make a cut, take 50, 60, 70, 80% off. I mean, if I would start building my own product now, I would the fuck make sure that I can automate as much as possible. 100%. I mean, the question is also, you see right now companies and you're quoting companies that maybe not necessarily have the best self-service mindset in place, right? And these questions are hopefully getting covered by good products in the future that will be built like that. But then you still have the problem that you need to have knowledge to prompt AI. Sure. And don't get me wrong, you worked on a ton of different things. You have a feeling of SEO, you have a feeling of marketing, you have a feeling of stuff. If you don't have the right level of skills to also interpret what you get back from the AI, to correct it, to re-prompt it, and to put it in the right direction, I don't think you get that far. I don't think that every person can just walk out of the door and build the next big thing just because there is AI. And I think there is still a good reason for people to go back to companies for the learning process, to learn from how they work, to learn from other people and so on, juniors. There is still a place for people to work in these companies, right? I think there is still a place for humans and for people to actually think and interpret in a way AI is still not capable. And I'm saying now, right, because I'm more thinking of the near future. Obviously, I don't speak about where I could go and how fast it can improve. I mean, if we look at what happened in the last year, we already saw such a big jump that obviously, give it five more years, who knows where it stands. And maybe you can automate Facebook. And maybe the AIs are coming up with their own companies and we just all end up in an apocalyptic scenario. But I think for now, there is still a place for everyone. And the environment is changing, right? Like also engineers. And we don't need to talk about JetGPT. I had a very interesting conversation a few weeks ago. Don't kill me for that or don't shoot the messenger. I wasn't the one coming up with it or saying it. And so I'm just like quoting here. Engineers used to be the brightest minds, right? Those were the people who changed the world. They built everything that we base our work on now. Nowadays, you have, again, let's even talk pre-JetGPT in the eyes. You have all the frameworks. You have all the simplified languages and so on. Engineers are no longer those great minds. They still are seen like that because there is like this, ooh, cloud around engineering where nobody understands it. But engineering is blue-collar work. It's like, those are the handymen. And actually, that brings me to the point or actually the reason why we're recording this episode today, because you're right. Not everyone is made for business and not everyone is going to build a Fortune 500 company or even a company that is somehow sustainable and has a return on invest. But the reason why we're discussing this today is also to drop some thought-provoking questions and statements for you as the audience to start rethinking what you're doing, because we are in a paradigm shift and we need to adapt. And the faster you adapt, the better your life will be in the future. And it's also for you a good, you are in a good position right now, if you believe that you have the skills to build your own product. It's at least my motivation. And Alex, you know how my life has changed in 2020 when I started becoming self-employed. It's worth it. But if you also feel… But that's where we're yin and yang, right? Exactly. You're the exact opposite. And this was actually the second part of what I'm saying right now. On the other hand, if you want to stay in a company, if you want to stay in what you're doing, it's really necessary that you still work with the new technology and try out building up your own projects and optimize things, because this is where we are heading to, right? I mean, more optimization, less human interaction or less need for human interaction, especially when it comes to the engineering side and stuff like this. So we need to think fast, actually. Yeah. It's just about finding that competitive edge, either by building your own company or by becoming the best employee in the company, leveraging the tools at hand. Or you become the best listener of the Product Bakery podcast by just pressing the follow button and following us on the social media channels. Fair enough. Then? You don't need AI for that at the moment. Not yet. AI still won't be able to listen for you. You need to do that on your own. But you can speed it up. Exactly. That's what we do. Christian sounds really funny. He's like a double speed. So let's speed it up and end this episode for today. Bye.