Full-Time vs. Freelancer: Why we do what we do

Welcome back to the Product Bakery. I'm Christian and here as always with Alex. Hey Alex. Hey Christian, what's up? It's good to see you. Well, up is the sky. Or the roof. Or the roof, depending where you are right now. It doesn't look like a sky in your video. I mean, when I close my eyes, I see the sky, you know. Oh yeah, of course. But actually, it's a good point. What do you see when you close your eyes? And I think we all have our own perspectives. And that's something I wanted to talk to you about because you and I, we have a lot of things in common, but we are also doing a lot of things differently. And I think you told me once that there is like this big question from many people who have heard, should I work as a freelancer? Should I rather work full time? And I think we should maybe catch it up today because you are working full time. I'm a freelancer. And this discussion, I think, is not about what's better or what is worse. It's rather about why are we doing what we're doing? That's a very fair question. I do ask this myself actually quite a lot, especially when talking to freelancers or I do work with a lot of freelancers also at my company where I'm like, okay, I couldn't do that job. Like, I couldn't jump between all these different companies and projects and so on. Why not? I mean, it was also one of the main reasons why I left consulting to go back and work in a company. I mean, part of it probably is stability. Part of it is impact. Also seeing the impact, feeling the impact. I think there's like, I would almost say a factor of being proud of the different achievements over a longer period of time, which in my mind, and I mean, you can correct me because you have like the other side of the picture, but in my mind, it's not something that I could easily see on a freelance side. Like is it freelance, is it coaching and so on? Like you do step in, you do work on other people's problems for a limited period of time and then there you go, off you go, the next thing comes, right? I mean, I'm also super curious to see it because there's one thing that I can see and that I can also understand and appreciate. There is obviously the financial aspect to not being fully employed, right? And I mean, Jesus Christ, when I see what we sometimes pay to freelancers, I'm like, okay, I am in the wrong position. And then at the end, I just can't pull it off. I mean, besides the fact that I'm obviously also a terrible salesperson, so I would be out of the project right from day one, right? But I mean, you tell me, like, do you feel that impact changed? So let me explain it with an example because, you know, people who are not working in our industry ask me a question, what you're doing? I told them I used to be a product manager and now I'm a product coach and they're asking me what's the difference? And I like to explain it very easily. I'm saying in the past I was working on the products and on the projects and now I'm doing the same thing but just working with the people. So and what is the impact? So I mean, the impact is when I see that people change. That's my impact. I'm not focused on, I want to see that app getting launched or I want to see the conversion rate increased by X, Y, Z percent. That's not what I'm focusing anymore on. It's rather on seeing, okay, helping people to see eventually their own blind spot, helping people to see their own blind spots or also teaching knowledge about certain things in product management. But then maybe we need to differentiate a little bit, right? Because I think as a coach, you're kind of your own product manager. And as you say, like the final product is not a digital product with a bunch of features, but it's actually the people. But imagine a product management freelancer, or in my case, a lot of the designers. You're talking about individual contributors, right? Something different than I do, yeah. What about that? I mean, I know you also had some projects where you're not working with people necessarily, but you help people build a specific page or launch something in the market. How is that from an impact perspective? Can you relate to the feeling that I have that's holding me back from becoming a freelancer? Sure. I mean, first of all, I stepped out from product management because I didn't want to be an individual contributor anymore. Just saying, right? So as a coach, I'm doing something different. I was thinking about also stepping in as an IC because, I mean, as you know me, I like being involved into a lot of projects. I like the context switch. I also like a changing environment because I believe I can connect to people easily. So I'm not that focused on the stability part as much as you might be or other people, which is totally fine, by the way. But yeah, I think like, as you said, this like jumping on topics for a short time. And also, you know, I think I need to spend a lot of energy by feeling myself into the product that I need to build when I'm an IC for a certain period of time. That's something I don't like because I like the part that you mentioned, right? So feeling yourself in, having the impact, feeling proud. And I know that's not that given if I work as an IC. That's why I'm not doing it. But I can understand people who like to have a lot of, you know, variety and change in their lives. So. Yeah. I mean, I think from that perspective, it's definitely interesting. I think it's definitely also interesting for people who want to have a way more flexible lifestyle to take a couple of months off every year and so on, which I mean, I can't really do that. You don't do vacation, right? No, I do vacation. I do. I mean, we talked about it. I just. Yeah. You're getting better at it. I would say. I even have like the next vacations planned. I have one coming up soon. Damn. Self-care is getting better and better Alex. But yeah, I don't know. One question I have for you is, I mean, you said stability is so important for you, right? Or you like to have the stable environment, but let's say what is giving you stability? Is it the regular income? Is it seeing the same people over and over again? So what is it that makes you feel stable and safe? Yes and no. I think so. Stability is obviously the easiest answer to this whole topic, right? If we don't want to go too deep on why someone is doing something. I mean, I do feel stability from a sense, like a lot of it is like knowledge stability. I know the topic that I'm working on. I know the subject matter is like really close to me. I know the people that I'm working with. I've built some relationships over the time. I know how to handle different people. So it's less of I'm starting every day differently or I'm starting every day by getting into a different topic, into new context and so on. And it helps me like really also go deep and focus on, I mean, of course, I'm also not like directly on the sea, but it helps me also on the managerial aspects of the different things, the working with the different people, the following through a strategy, building a strategy, executing on it, right? It's like just like a long-term project, like you start building your house and you do something every day and you're not just like, I don't know, furnishing different apartments. That's a very bad analogy. Not that bad, honestly. One reason why we picked up that conversation is also, there might be people out there or there are people out there who are asking themselves, what should I do? What's the best thing for me? And we learned that it's not taking bootcamp. Yeah, but I think one more thing we can, so we talked about stability, right? In a broader sense, but there's also like this financial aspect we should catch up on because I mean, as you said, right, there is like this regular income. You know, money is coming in as long as inflation, Corona war and stuff like that is not hitting you too hard. But overall, like there is like this regular income of money and you know what to do with it. You know, you can survive for a certain time and maybe you are able to save some money. So on a freelancer level, it's a little bit different, right? Yeah, it is different. But at the same time, the way I look at it, or if I see a lot of my successful freelance friends actually with a smaller number of clients and hours spent working. And now a lot of freelancers would correct me because it's not about the actual hours that you work, you need to cultivate a lot of like relationships, but like with many hours less and more freedom also in choosing and designing your days, they can actually get to a higher level of return, right? So in theory, it isn't so much about the financial stability, right? Not necessarily. But the reason why I wanted to talk about it is because there is this financial impact that you have as a freelancer, as you said. So there is a chance to make much more money than as an employee. And I just wanted to catch up on this because I just recently saw a nice post. I think it was, I think it was on Facebook. I know Facebook isn't the best source, but there was like a nice saying, it was a picture with some text on it. And I think the quote was, it's hard to find good employees because good employees are not looking for you. They're working on their own projects and they're following their own dreams. So why am I using this? This is necessarily right. I actually agree. I've heard this a lot, but is it true? It is not necessarily true for all employees, but the point I want to make is, so there are these great people out there who are following their dreams and one of their, the path contains helping other companies. So it's not necessarily about the fact that you can make more money. First of all, the reason why you make so much money as a freelancer is the value that you can deliver to the company. I think that's something that many people do not look at enough when they decided to become a freelancer, because let's say you are a great consultant or a great coach and you charge, I don't know, a couple of thousand dollars per day. How do you argue that? So if you're not able to sell that, and if you don't deliver the value, you're getting kicked out right away. So and that's what many people underestimate when they see the big salaries the freelancers are making. There's still a lot of responsibility on their side because if they're not successful and if they can't hold what they promise, they're out. And they need to promise a lot more than the usual employee. At least that's with me the case. I mean, I don't know how your freelancers are, how you have agreed, but. No, of course, of course, a freelancer needs to deliver. It's way easier to change a freelancer than to change a full-time employee, right? Which is also the reason why a lot of companies work with freelancers, because you call them in and you use them as you need them and then bye bye. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the more I think about it, I think it comes down to meeting people where they are at, right? It's the same conversation of like manager versus individual contributor. It's the same conversation of someone who wants to be promoted every year versus someone who wants to have like his stable job for the next 10 years, but just like do it well. I think people are generally all very different. But yeah, I think there are definitely some good points that we just discussed when it comes to actually like thinking about the role, right? And I think there is no argument that works for everything, as long as they don't. No, no, go ahead. No, I was just saying, you're right, right? I mean, everything other people do is fine as long as they're doing the same thing like I do. So you interrupted me for a stupid joke. That's the key at the product bakery. Fair enough. Yeah. Should we wrap it up? Yeah. I mean, as I said, I think whoever wants, whoever is standing in front of that question, what should I do? I mean, I would sit down. Do what's right for you. Do what's right for you. First of all, I mean, honestly, it's a good point because you should not do this for others or to impress others or to, you know, be the only one. Maybe you are the only one who's not making enough money in your friend circle. Fuck that. But what makes you happy and what feels good, first of all, and whether this is working as freelancer where you have to sell yourself or not, or as a full-time employee or full-time investor, whatever you like to do, take care of yourself. Take care of yourself, wise words. And with that, if you like this episode, please make sure to leave us a follow. We love seeing you again, hearing you again, or you listening to us again. Whatever. If you have any comments, drop us a message. Happy to pick it up in this conversation. Christian? Alex. Thanks. Have a nice evening. Bye. Tschüss.